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Eric Stopper  24:04

that’s, I mean, that would be to, to most people looking at a case you’re talking about case studies, right? Or just right.

Onn Manelson  24:12

Case studies and reports and we’re seeing constantly people share some information and look at my ACOS. And and you know, I think to myself, okay, so you have a 15% ACOS. So what does it mean? How many impressions are you losing? And we don’t we don’t even know I mean, how is it impacting the organic also we don’t you know, so people are taking pieces of information and and and and you know, are making turning it into certain facts and they want to go ahead and copycat them, and that it’s a lot related to lack of knowledge. At the end of the day, we’re seeing a lot of lack of knowledge. And we try to educate and we try to you know, we do a lot of webinars

Eric Stopper  24:52

Yeah, Onn I was gonna say, I don’t have I don’t have time. I don’t have time to get the knowledge and it seems really complex and I don’t know what to do. Right? I feel like it’s this constant loop.

Onn Manelson  25:05

It’s, it’s a constant loop. And that’s why it’s interesting. So here it is. So here’s how I see a little bit about, you know, specifically where we are, and where we position ourselves. And that’s, and that’s also something that we spent a lot of time thinking about. So, on the one hand, you have early, early starters, and those that did, you know, some sort of Amazon course, and they selected a product, and they’re using, you know, great tools like Jungle Scout and others to go ahead and pick their product and, and, and do their analysis. And then they go ahead and they, and they get it and the manufacturer or some sort of private label in China, and they bring it to Amazon. And they’re starting their journey. And then it hits them that they need to advertise as well. What a majority of these do they do, hey, I need an automated solution, something plug and play. Okay, let you know a lot of solutions come, they come out and they’re fully automated. Great. You tell us your target ACOS. And that’s it? Well,

Eric Stopper  25:58

well, I think we skipped a step though. And I think it’s a step that is accidentally skipped a lot of the time. So I had three conversations just last week, where they were coming to me and they’re saying, Hey, you know, we’ve been selling, you know, we’re selling on Amazon, and we’re trying to get started with some advertising. And I said pump the brakes and said, Hold on a second, getting started with advertising, have you found that a lot of people will just like a list. And then as soon as they realize that they need to start an advertising base, they look for a software instead of just advertising, right? What percentage would you say, of the people that come to you looking for a solution would be better suited to just like, try advertising? Right, what percentage of them have actually liked, tried their hand on it and put some money in their campaigns?

Onn Manelson  26:48

I think that none, no, wow. None, I think that typically our those that come up to us, usually are those that automation doesn’t work for them. And they’re not gonna, and they understand that they realize that. And on the contrary, you know, they’re not going to spend 1500 to $2,000. North of that, in terms of having somebody, you know, do their advertising for them. So, and that’s, you know, a lot of how we see and where we chose to position ourselves specifically around that, you know, you have those solutions that, you know, they want to take things off your hand, because, again, you know, as we said, advertising is not simple. And you know, if you look at it, it can be very, very frustrating, frustrating. And you see, let’s plug and play put in your targeting calls. And what we realized is that people even don’t even know how to set your targeting, forget about it.

Eric Stopper  27:44

I’m really curious as to I mean, I think this depends greatly on the stage of business that you’re at. But personally, I’ve said on this podcast, I hate Acos I think that it’s barely useful to tell me the efficiency of a keyword or keyword group. But like, I’m really interested in how much it improves my rank, right? If I spend, if I spend $5, and I only make $5. Right? How did that $5 actually impact my organic rank for the keyword that I was that I was listing for? And so I’m more interested in return on ad spend.

Onn Manelson  28:20

All right, I am completely on ad spend. That is that is the language. I think that a lot of times we speak to sellers, and we tell them Okay, guys, let’s say that, you know, you don’t have an online store on Amazon, let’s say that you have a physical store around the corner. Okay, nobody knows you, you’re starting to build your credibility. Okay, what is the business plan? A business plan includes advertising budget, to get people to start even knowing the meaning, that’s pretty much money that you’re setting aside without expectation of getting an immediate return off it in the short term, okay? It’s something that you need to realize that you are planting the seeds right now, in order to start building yourself up and that, you know, unless you’re really, really a category leader, or you know, you’re pretty much off the charts there. And then, you know, in that case, still, you know, we’d recommend to go ahead and, and continue advertising, but overall, during the certain stages, you have different tactics and you have different goals, okay? And, and most others don’t necessarily realize that it’s just like any other business, okay? It’s not, you know, you can’t say, hey, Amazon is different from any other business, you have a business, you want to get credibility, you want to get noticed, you have to know you have some sort of business plan that needs to be put together. A lot of sellers that we speak to, they don’t necessarily have, you know, business plans that they put together and they said, Okay, here’s what I need to do right now. This is, you know, they know what’s being pretty much the common things that are being said to them. Okay, I’ll set my listing. I’ll bring somebody over to help me out with my listing optimization. Good. They don’t look at it from you know, at the end of the day, you’re kind of like doing a marathon. Okay, and there are different stages during that marathon that, you know, when you’re selling on Amazon. And, you know, there are different tactics and different objectives that you want to reach during a marathon run, you know, your, for the long run, short term is not going to work again, you know, I’m, you know, maybe now during the COVID, somebody just bought inventory of something that’s, but it’s not, you know, it’s not something that you can sustain over a long period of time. And, and that’s, and that’s part of the lack that we see, when we get a lot of the clients that come in, they’ve used automation, they said, Hey, it didn’t work for me, well, I don’t know much about advertising, I wouldn’t be able to educate now I understand that I need to get more involved. Okay. Okay. So now that you need to get more involved, what are you doing about how you go? And how do you go off about, you know,

Eric Stopper  30:46

please help me shorten the curve for you a little bit, right, like, help me filter because there are people listening, I guarantee who feel out of control, like it’s too complex, like they don’t have enough time, and they don’t know what to do? Right? Like, plenty of people like that. So describe the steps that they should take. Right, before they come to you. Right, right. Before they come to RevenueWize, what are the things that in the best case scenario they have already worked out? before they come in, and utilize your software?

Onn Manelson  31:22

I think the main main thing that you need to understand as a seller on Amazon, is where the product life cycle stage that you are, okay. And this is, again, this is something that’s related to any business, if you know, there’s a product life cycle curve, that, you know, that’s something that anybody can look into. And it’s, you know, common knowledge. Are you now at the stage that you’re, you know, launching? Are you trying to gain credibility? Are you going towards a certain maturity, and when is that decline, you have to identify where you are. Now, it’s not identified, it’s identifying within the category, that your product and what you’re trying to sell to promote is, so you have to constantly look at what’s going on in general, in your general environment and your competitive landscape. And to that, you know, go ahead, look into it. Get realistic, wishful is good. And you want to, you know, you want to go ahead and you want to try to be aggressive and everything, but you need to be realistic. You know, people come in, and they’re just not realistic. They come in again, hey, 20% 20% equals or this and that, and, okay, how did you? How did you get to that?

Eric Stopper  32:32

Yeah. How did you arrive at that?

Onn Manelson  32:33

I heard, I just heard you know, that that’s how it is, and 20 is a good number.

Eric Stopper  32:37

I hear it all the time.

Onn Manelson  32:39

Yeah, you’re,

Eric Stopper  32:40

like, no consideration for the cost of the product, the price of the product, the average order value, the competition

Onn Manelson  32:47

I looked at, right, so I look at a, you know, recently I had somebody come in, they have five, they just launched recently, they have five reviews, they’re in a category that their competitors have 4000 reviews, plus, okay, what are you gonna do there, you want to talk to me about a 20% a cost, I mean, you’re gonna have to probably spend a lot of money before you’re gonna have to stay. But that’s something that you have to think about as part of your planning. So you need to plan, you know, planning is key, you really, you know, it’s not just, hey, let’s, you know, use the momentum here. And let’s just get the ball rolling. You know, today, in order to be a professional, you need to plan things out, you need to plan the stages out. And you need to know, what are you going to do during each stage? And if something doesn’t happen, based on your trajectory, what are you then going to do? Just like any other business, I think that overall, people think that hey, selling on Amazon, just selling online, I’ll do this and that, but this is a business like any other business? Well, there’s no

Eric Stopper  33:44

talk, talk to me about. Because let’s say I determine that I’m in the introduction stage, like the launch stage. And by the way, for any of you guys who missed it, the product life cycle was defined like in the 1930s. Actually, I think it’s the concepts that have been around for a long time, a good introduction, growth, maturity, and decline. And there’s a chart that everyone uses for the amount of sales that you get over over time. That’s that’s the simple plot. And we can and we can include a chart in the show notes for this. So for easy reference. So let’s say I determine I’m in the intro, right, low amount of sales for a longer amount of time. Is that the stage where I come and use RevenueWize? Should I be better suited in the growth stage? How do you approach this problem?

Onn Manelson  34:31

So, again, I think that it’s a good question. I think it also has a lot of dependency on your, you know, on your category and where you are, um, I think that if we do come in we have an early stage and beginners that are coming during the introduction stage. And we do help them out during that stage in terms of getting that initial credibility. I think the problem is less, how do we help them? I think it’s more of helping them get into That state of mind and understanding. Okay, I think that’s the key, basically, because once somebody realizes that, okay, I’m now on the introduction stage, and we talk to them in the end, they understand they say, do you know what you’re right? You know, I didn’t specifically Think about that. And I understand now based on your explanation that I need to do, and I need to look at it from a different angle.

Eric Stopper  35:21

So it’s, so it’s less about, it’s less about them, validating whether or not they can use the tool and more, helping them set their expectations for what they should use the tool for.

Onn Manelson  35:35

Yes, and once they know what their expectations are, and what they fit, then you know, that they set up their, you know, they set up their strategy, and the solution is going to support them, you know, if you’re going to come in, and you’re gonna, you know, if you’re currently at a 60% Acos, and you want to be, you know, very much wishful and you’re not realistic, and you’re going to put 20%. And obviously, you know, nothing’s going to help you out there. So, so again, so part of that conversation that we have is okay, guys, you’re at this specific stage, what are your expectations? Or how do you think you’re going to achieve that, and I think that has to do with any solution, not specifically, RevenueWize, it you know, any solution that you go ahead and use, you have to be in the right state of mind and understanding of where you are, in order to get optimal results. And again, the majority of our clients are those that already had some sort of experience in terms of advertising. They’re not the ones that just selected just recently selected a product and are just really, really launching it right now. Because one of the lessons that we’ve learned is that many sellers have an issue with the fact that solutions go out there and generate a huge amount of campaigns and ad groups that are out of their control. If you remember, we talked about being in control. And our strategy is not going ahead and just creating immense amounts of ad groups and all and touching your campaign structure. It’s rather looking at your current campaign structure and working off of it, okay, so we don’t go ahead and a peer plus a button, you click on it, you your play you’re in, and the solution starts just starts running and creating, okay, you need this in this ad group, you need to change your structure, we consult, and we provide you with tutorials of how to build a proper solid campaign structure. But it’s up to you to set that up. Okay, just for the specific reasons that we see clients of ours have come in, and you know, have used certain solutions, and they have hundreds of ads, and they’re not even able to find out and figure out what the logic is because some sort of solution went ahead and created automated ad groups and campaigns. And now they have duplicates, and they have a lot of things out there that they don’t really know how to deal with. So our approach, again, is, look come in with your current campaign structure. And based on your current campaign structure, we’re going to run an analysis, and then we’re going to generate the recommendations what you actually need to do based on your current campaign structure,

Eric Stopper  38:03

and is this like a consultation process that you take people through? Do you guys have like a sales consulting team that will that will help folks out? or right

Onn Manelson  38:11

So first of all, you know, we like to have initial onboarding calls, we like to talk to each of our clients, have an initial conversation, and just make an understanding. At the end of the day, we’re not looking to sign up clients that, you know, two, three months down the road are gonna say, hey, this didn’t work for me. And we don’t even know why. Because they just didn’t use the solution properly. They weren’t in the right state of mind, or their expectations were, as we mentioned, 20% acos which wasn’t realistic. So we like to, you know, bring these things and have this kind of initial discussion, we generate a lot, a lot of content, a lot of video tutorials, where you can go in, you can, you know, look at two, three minutes and understand, you know, how to build a proper campaign structure, and then it’s up to you to go ahead and do it. And again, we know that for some, some, some sellers are going to come and say, Hey, you know, what, if I don’t want to do it, I want you to do it for us, then maybe our solution is not ideal for them. But we as part of that, educate a lot of the sellers, we see a lot of our clients, really, really good getting educated as part of the process. And they’re, they’re coming in, they’re making decisions out of knowledge, and knowledge is power. Okay, you know, what’s happening in your account, you made that decision out of a certain sense of knowledge, you changed your campaign structure, because you realize that the way you initially built it wasn’t the right way. So go ahead and change it. And we’re going to support your new structure, which is completely fine. Um, and that’s, that’s the, that’s the sense that has been leading us, you know, you want to make a decision, we’re going to support you, we’re going to give you a recommendation, we’re going to be able to execute it through the solution. But at the end of the day, it’s up to you to make that decision out of knowledge. Okay, and we’re going to feed you all the necessary information. We can tell you what’s happening. We’re going to give you what it might be causing it. If you can execute the recommendation, you can do anything else. You don’t have to go ahead and adopt it. Because at the end of the day, we think that your judgment at the end of the day knowing your product, knowing your solution, knowing your starting here, your landscape, knowing all of that, you’re probably the best person to make that decision.

Eric Stopper  40:18

Yeah, I mean, it almost sounds like there’s a questionnaire that you could probably send everybody to, to get to the bottom of the position in their business that they’re at, I kind of want to put that together. Now, you’ve you’ve told me, and this is this, the last thing that I want to touch on with you, you’ve told me that in the next five years or so maybe even next year, sellers need to make sure they’ve transitioned to other platforms as well write a lot about Walmart and eBay on on this podcast. But are there any other platforms that you would encourage product companies to begin selling on? And how do they even become aware of them? You know, what’s, you know, what, why do you? What do you? Where do you think people should go for the new platforms?

Onn Manelson  41:03

Right, so so so obviously, you know, there’s no question that Amazon is, you know, is, is the biggest and most dominant player today, around that, again, if you look at the Far East, and obviously, you know, Alibaba and others are making a major leap, particularly into Europe, because I’m going to so dominant right now in the US. But I think that there are great, very, very niche marketplaces out there, that can work very, very well look at Etsy, Etsy is showing immense growth, and, you know, Etsy, Pinterest, Etsy, Pinterest. But I’ve been following Etsy, and, you know, they’re doing a really, really great job, you know, they’re not, you know, they’re not rushing things, they’re doing things that are good scale, they introduced advertising as well, for example, you know, it’s something that the, they’ve also included, they go in, and they make these small steps, and you see that they’re constantly growing, because they also, you know, provide some sort of experience in Amazon, as we know, with as a company goes ahead and grows, and Amazon does a million other things apart from, you know, the Amazon Marketplace. And, you know, the question at the end of the day is their month or 30 years, you know, historically looking at it, there aren’t going to be other players that are going to start getting into that, and regulations and all sorts of things that are trying to limit Amazon flow. And recently, we had, you know, this whole Facebook Shopify thing. And, and that’s where we get a lot of questions about, Hey, what do I do if I have a Shopify store and what I do around that, and, and the main issue around that it’s bringing trust, because it all comes down to traffic. So on the one hand, you know, Amazon brings you the traffic, but then you have to, you have to appear somewhere. And if you have a Shopify, your own software platform, you have your own dedicated store, then you have to go ahead and bring your, you know, your Google Facebook or whatever sources that you want to go ahead and bring traffic. But I think that, you know, as we go along, we’re going to see more and more of these niche marketplaces which provide a different experience. I don’t necessarily know if Walmart is going to do that. And Walmart has its own advantages. But I think that if we look at marketplaces that are going to be similar to Etsy, which work on specific categories and verticals, then we’re going to see more and more growth around those. And we’re going to see more and more of these, you know, slowly, slowly progress. So I just think that people should keep out, keep an eye out, look at their verticals outside and the category that they’re playing on outside of Amazon. See if there are other sources.

Eric Stopper  43:40

Yeah. I mean, the thing that you mentioned at the beginning, right, especially with international, basically, if you list in Germany, and I think the Netherlands just opened up, you get sales, it’s like you’d like the cost per click is like pennies. Right? Right. So there’s, you know, there’s much more Amazon territory. etsy is a big player, Instagram stores, Facebook stores, you’ve got platforms like Zulily and Jane, I think that are really

Onn Manelson  44:07

Right. Right, right. Yeah.

Eric Stopper  44:08

And so my philosophy is if if you’ve got a little bit of inventory moving around, or that that’s, that’s sitting that maybe isn’t moving as quickly as you’d like, just just list everywhere, you know, just try it out, see what see what works and make sure that you keep the pricing consistent, I would say on it has it has been a an absolute pleasure to talk with you. I know that we’ll talk at length on maybe other episodes and webinars, but where should I send people? How do they get in touch with you and your team?

Onn Manelson  44:37

Yeah, they can just go to our website. I mean, it’s all there, revenuewize.com. Come visit us. Come get you know, your own experience. See it. You know, we’re happy to chat with people. We’re happy to learn. We’re constantly learning more and more again, you know, we’re constantly doing our own improvement and as things and based on what we hear from our clients and our prospects. And I think that’s the key here. We’re constantly evolving. And it’s a journey, just like it is for any Amazon Silver’s just the same journey for us as a company. Well, it’s been great being here. I really, you know, really, really enjoyed it. You know? And yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna speak again soon.

Eric Stopper  45:21

Thanks. come on the show.

Onn Manelson  45:23

Yeah, thanks for having me over.

Eric Stopper  45:25

To finish today’s podcast, I want to share some final thoughts. For large brands who are seeking to wholesale product to a trusted Amazon reseller, we at Buy Box Experts are big fans of the team over at Pattern. They’ve helped hundreds of large brands to capitalize on the Amazon channel while also helping implement channel governance best practices that allow the brands to have consistency across all their sales channels. For more information, go to pattern.com and reach out to their team there and they’ll be able to help you. We hope to see you soon on the Buy Box Experts podcast.

Outro  45:56

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