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Dean Dutro 21:17

There’s, you know, there’s a lot of different software out there that helps with that, you know, Google Analytics is pretty accurate. But there’s some more specific ones, I can’t remember the names of them off the top of my head. But it’s, you know, it’s tough. I think that’s one of the problems right now is figuring out attribution. And so that’s, again, why I like to talk about overall lift, right? What I do know is that a channel like email, as you grow it, your profitability increases, right? So even if we’re not, like, let’s say, directly impacting gross sales, perhaps you will see the added benefit of more cash flow, because again, as you go from let’s say, for example, you’re doing $100,000 a month in sales 30,000 on your Shopify site, right. 30,000 of that could be coming from email, if you’re doing it right. Then if you go from 100,000 to 200,000 60,000, that should be coming from email at no additional cost, huh? Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Eric Stopper 22:21

That makes sense to me. Yeah. You You, you were able to, to send the additional emails because you’ve got the additional people and it didn’t cost you that much. It just scaled with the amount of sales that you scaled with it.

Dean Dutro 22:34

Speed itself.

Eric Stopper 22:36

Hmm. Um, so talk to me, like, I’m a couple of different types of business owners. So let’s first say, I’m giant, I got a big company, multiple lines of products, I sell on my website, I sell on Amazon, I sell on Walmart, I got some eBay I mess with, you know, I did a couple promotions on, I thought I was gonna get in a lawsuit over it, you know, maybe not gonna mess with that guy, my whole business. I’ve got a bunch of people on my team. I get on a call with you. And I say, you know, like, I’m generating 15% of my website traffic from email. What are some of the things like, how do you talk to me? In that scenario? What kind of questions would you ask me? How do you get to the bottom of how you can help me?

Dean Dutro 23:28

Yeah, so, you know, I try to figure out how important is your website to your overall business structure? Right? So if you’re just if you’re just on Amazon, or just on eBay, does it make sense to invest in an email? At the price that we do it right? Or do you need to start kind of slower and start with some basics? Ultimately, if you’re at that level, people are probably searching for a website, right? People are gonna search for more information. And I don’t know if you’ve ever been on Amazon, you’ve seen a company. And you’re like, oh, like, I actually want to go Google this company to see are they legit or not? Right? That happens all the time. Now, same if you’re on like, like, huckberry is like a really popular e-commerce kind of marketplace. If you don’t realize those brands have their own websites. And then, you know, you can get different products or better deals and things like that. So how important is their own new marketing? I would say, hey, Heather, has there ever been a case where you’ve been on Amazon and your accounts been flagged or paused? What did that do to your business? Has there ever been a case where you know, Google’s algorithm changed and your organic traffic dropped to almost nothing? Is every case you’re going on Facebook, and your ads have stopped? Right? Or have you heard stories like that often? Almost everyone’s gone?

Eric Stopper 24:53

Yes. Yes. Yes. And yes, yeah.

Dean Dutro 24:54

Right. So it’s like okay, I ever thought about or imagined it would be like If you had an email list that you’ve been collecting over five years of 100,000 people from all this money, your spam traffic, right? And if those situations happen, how nice it would be to send out a single email, and make all your revenue back that you just lost? Like, would that benefit you? Would that be important to you? Or what if we could generate $60,000 a month? You know, in sales, it only costs you 4000 bucks, right? To send that many emails? Like, do you think that’s worth the ROI? Well, if so, like, here’s how we get there, right? Here’s, here’s the plan of action, here’s the time it’s going to take based on the numbers. And we can basically predict, you know, down to a tee as long as especially if they’re large businesses, we’re going to know their conversion rates, their visitor traffic, the only thing we have to worry about is building up sender reputation, which takes about 90 days at that level. But we can basically predict it’s gonna take us 90 days to get this much revenue, about six months, you’ll be here in about two years, you know, you’ll be here. But it’s not just about the revenue, it’s also about the profit. So if you can increase again, it feeds itself. So the more profit you make, the more you can invest in the front end channels, the more emails we collect, right? So out a year from now, if you’ve got double the amount of emails, it just just keeps growing. It’s absolutely nuts. And we’ve seen that happen over and over. There is kind of a break even, there’s a point where it’s very difficult to generate 30% of your email. Because of the different types of segmentation you have to do and the expertise it takes to keep your sender reputation up. That’s a completely different story that isn’t relevant to most people.

Eric Stopper 26:45

So now let’s, let’s take the example of somebody who’s brand new. Yeah, right. They, they’ve, they’ve got this product that’s going to change the world, and they want to sell it. And they heard that email marketing is great. Maybe they watch some, some YouTube videos or something, and they come to you or a member of your team. And they say, okay, Dean, where do I start? What do you tell that budding entrepreneur in regards to building an email Empire and setting up their business for success in the long term from an email perspective?

Dean Dutro 27:17

Yeah, keep it simple, right? Like, use a tool like clay vo, that’s what we recommend for all e-commerce stores, and all of our clients are on it. MailChimp doesn’t integrate with Shopify anymore. So it’s like, Why use it? Craig’s got data, it’s relatively inexpensive, uses really good pop up software, we use justuno as our main one there, they’re an awesome team, again, really expensive, especially for entry level. But you need to get a pop up going as much as people say they hate pop ups. Everyone expects them now, right? Everyone expects to see if they first visited a site to get 10% off or free shipping or a bundle or something right? Like, talk to anybody? And they’ll say, yeah, I’ve seen a pop up and I love getting like that first deal. Right? It’s like, what are your margins? What can you afford? Can you do 10% off? Can you do free shipping, do you know whatever your business model is cash off, you know, like, offering like a $5 coupon is kind of cool. That converts pretty well. And make sure you have at least four emails to follow up with people who sign up to your email list, at least four. And a lot of people are gonna hate me for saying this, don’t give the coupon code on site, force them to go to their email to collect it. Right? what that’ll do for you long term will have dramatic effects on your email system, your open rates will be significantly higher, there’ll be like 60 to 70% versus 30 to 40%. And that, that open rate, that high open rate will indicate to Google to Gmail to Outlook to Yahoo to whatever email service people use, that you’re a solid sender. Right? And you’ll show up in the inbox more. So a lot of people don’t know this. If If, if you do sign up for a brand and you start opening their emails over time, Google will start to automatically send those to trash, right, you know, and novel automatically ask if you want to unsubscribe, it’ll go literally say, hey, you haven’t opened these emails, these people? Would you like to unsubscribe? Right? Or they’ll just send it to trash? It’s not spam, right? But it’s just saying, hey, like these people aren’t engaged, why flood their inbox with your emails. But if you get that really high open rate on that first email that trickles down and has a benefit to your entire system down the road,

Eric Stopper 29:37

it can still happen though. Like if you know, 5050 emails down the road. They’re not opening like you’ll still end up in trash. But that first it’s that first transaction, I guess we have something similar for Amazon to there’s something called the search the search by method and I’m skipping a step there. Everyone’s gonna demonize me for this and forgetting the third word search. Search find by method where you, you encourage the person to go search for a specific keyword. Find your product in the list of keywords, sometimes you gotta go to like the seventh page or whatever, and then click on it and buy it. Right? Because then it tells the system, hey, this keyword like, this listing should be higher up in the rank. So it’s something very similar. It’s, it’s gaming, it’s gaming an algorithm, right? It’s using the algorithm to your benefit. So at least four emails, you’re saying, like an intro, informational type of email, a coupon email, kind of following the flow of what you said before?

Dean Dutro 30:40

Yeah, so it’s like he could do you know, like coupon information, welcome to the tribe, welcome to whatever company has some basic information in there, have some recommended products bestsellers, right. The second email could be like, a message from the founder, you know, like, just in tech space, you know, like, hey, like, thank you so much for subscribing, really appreciate it, we work really hard to make these products. If any questions, let us know, by the way you haven’t purchased yet, here’s your coupon code, you know, use it within 72 hours, etc. Email for can be Hey, check out our top sellers. Here’s some reviews, here’s some reviews about our company, here’s some social proof, by the way, haven’t used your coupon, you know, like use it. And then email five could be either another sales push, or it could be more information, could be at any questions, email us, you can’t play around with it. But keep it simple, that like, email doesn’t have to look amazing anymore. Right? Like it’s trending simple, because people are so used to mobile that you don’t need, like this amazing superior design, you know, from $100 an hour designer, to have an impact on email, it can literally just be, you know, hero image, some text and a call to action. That’s all you really need to get started. And, you know, for emails, that’s going to generate more sales, we think about it, you know, if someone comes to your site clicks, there’s a few people are going to purchase right away, most people are going to leave and some people are gonna sign up for email, and they’re going to purchase but there’s still like, of the people that sign up for for your email list, get the code and purchase, there’s still, you know, 80% that aren’t going to purchase yet. But they will go down the road. Right? So you’re creating a long tail effect, which is super impactful.

Eric Stopper 32:28

So I I had this question when we first met and I’ve been itching to ask it. Typically people get paid, right? during some specific times, right? The 10th? The 21st, the fourth, right? Those are some of the critical pay dates. Do you find the process of getting somebody to buy a product easier when you I don’t know aggregate your I’d like to place those emails at those payment dates. Have you guys ever experimented or anything like that, like basically saying, hey, like, you probably have more money right? Now. Here’s a promotion, right? Here’s that thing that you were looking at before? Do you guys ever mess anything like that?

Dean Dutro 33:13

Not exactly. That’s a great idea. But what we have done is, for instance, when the stimulus checks can, you know, we sound stimulus emails and some clients there are this guy, he sells Auto Parts he made like eight times his daily sales on stimulus. Right? which is amazing. And we sound like two emails or something. And then on tax day, usually, you know when when people are getting their tax returns during that week, we’ll send out kind of like tax return doesn’t work for every brand, you know, so it’s kind of the ones that have some more flair or personality that you can do it with pretty successfully. Otherwise it just seems kind of like cheesy or scammy but you know, there’s always like brands that have that kind of edge. Sure. That did well. But I like that idea of payday timing.

Eric Stopper 34:02

Look at everybody. Yeah. Your website has all kinds of testimonials and examples of people. I just wanted to ask you about one or two of them. Lat & Lo there’s a video it’s about a minute and a half of her talking about what you did for them. I kind of like to know the story behind that and about the founder and kind of the situation and where you’re able to take them.

Dean Dutro 34:27

Yeah, so Lat & Lo was you know an awesome company actually. There’s one I want to talk about that I like more. planner perfect. I really like this story a lot. Most stories are also awesome. I don’t know the full details of that one. So I want to give you one I know more about so this company planner pervades their front from like the Midwest somewhere. I can’t remember exactly Ohio or Oklahoma or somewhere and they live on a farm and she’s got several kids. She works from home. Her husband is a farmer, and helps. And they came to us some I can’t give specific numbers, but they’ve been working with us for over a year. And they started at maybe 400,000 500,000 in sales. And, you know, since then, through launching email, you know, we’ve more than doubled their business in a period about six months and continues to grow, we actually had a pause, emailing, because she was selling out too quick. It is a phenomenon that happens when you get to a certain point of emails, of new email subscribers, all of a sudden, you sell out really quick. And then you got to send like out of stock emails and things like that. But that was a prime example of of, you know, a person who started on business started on products, try building it got to a plateau couldn’t figure out how to make more profit, we came in and said, Hey, like, let’s do some emails, you’re really not doing anything, the biggest complaint most e-commerce stores make is they wish they would have done email earlier. I hear that all the time. So like, hey, like, let’s build out a system. Let’s start sending campaigns, let’s start collecting emails, we think like you’ve got a great brand within, you’re gonna have a great following. Let’s get people from social media on your email list. Let’s get people from other channels on your email list. Let’s see what we can do. Well, that exact process I described was not only making them make more revenue, they started making more profit, those profits can be reinvested on the front end, and it just became a snowball effect really started. I think that they quadrupled in size. Amazing, you know, pretty quick. And that’s a pretty common story. When you start implementing email, you know, it’s not unknown.

Eric Stopper 36:45

Before I forget to ask this question. I’m wondering, would you encourage somebody to buy an email list? Or should it be totally driven by ads or organic? I should be ads or

Dean Dutro 36:55

organic. The days of buying email lists are far gone. You know, maybe 15 years ago, you could?

Eric Stopper 37:03

Wow, 15 years ago.

Dean Dutro 37:05

Yeah, it just doesn’t work. And it messes up your sender reputation. Most emails are crap, you know, you got to pay to verify them, and I just don’t work. You know?

Eric Stopper 37:17

Okay. No, I mean, that makes sense. So what if I’m, if I’m a company that should come to Worth eCommerce, or should consider coming to Worth eCommerce? What’s the question I should ask myself to, to self select or to, to validate whether or not it would be a good idea for me to reach out to you and your team?

Dean Dutro 37:38

Yeah, what, uh, how much traffic? Are you driving? Right? And is it 10,000 visitors a month at least? If seldom, like, typically, we should be collecting emails now. And we can do it fast. The other is, do you see like, I guess, depending on where you are in revenue, do you see growth happening? Right? Like, where do you want to actually go in your business? Do you want it to be a little thing, where it’s just you and you’re running it? Can we help with that? Do you want it to grow faster, you know, different plans, depending on sort of your lifestyle goals. Because we know how powerful email is. And once you start getting it live, it starts to move pretty quick. The other thing that I would add is, companies that perform really well with email, they have to have content, right, they have to have either blogs or videos or any sort of good information that we can actually send out. If they don’t have any content, they don’t have any branding. It’s really tough. I think that’s tough for any e-commerce store, exam, any branding to succeed, and to be honest. So you got to have some basics in place, you want to have your other foundations in place. And traffic, otherwise, email just sits there does nothing

Eric Stopper 38:50

like that. That makes a ton of sense. Make sure you’re optimized. I can’t count the amount of people who are looking for traffic when they should be focused on conversion. If there’s a if you’re worried about that at all, and you’re listening to this, reach out to us or reach out to Dean and his team. How, how can everybody find you in the e-commerce team? Where should I send everyone?

Dean Dutro 39:15

Yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn, just Dean Dutro. Or they go to We’ve got a free webinar up and we got a strategy call with you to figure out if something makes sense. I also have a course called if you’re interested, let me know. We actually use it to train our own team. So it’s very powerful. But those are the three core places you can find us. Awesome.

Eric Stopper 39:42

Go to, or and go find Dean and his team. Mr. Dean, thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah, appreciate it. To finish today’s podcast, I want to share some final thoughts. For third party sellers to be successful on Amazon, you’ve got to get reviews. We at Buy Box Experts are really big fans of the team over at eComEngine and it’s tools that help Amazon sellers simplify the process of soliciting reviews from customers who purchase their products. For more information, go to Thanks for joining us today.

Outro 40:15 

Thanks for listening to the Buy Box Experts Podcast. Be sure to click subscribe, check us out on the web, and we’ll see you next time.