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Dean DutroDean Dutro is the Co-founder of Worth eCommerce, a company that helps e-commerce businesses of all sizes dramatically grow their revenue with email marketing. Worth eCommerce focuses on driving results and boosting ROI. It has worked with over 500 stores and built two of its own that have reached the 7-figure mark.

Dean is an e-commerce email marketing and Klaviyo expert. He is also the Founder of Email Growth Training and the host of the Relationship Commerce Podcast.


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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Dean Dutro discusses the email marketing services his company, Worth eCommerce, provides
  • How Dean helped one of his clients dramatically increase sales and profits using a powerful email marketing system
  • Why email marketing has been getting more effective over the years
  • Dean talks about optimizing email campaigns for the customer lifecycle
  • How Dean helps business owners who are selling on multiple platforms
  • Dean’s advice to new entrepreneurs looking to build an email marketing empire
  • The four emails that e-commerce sellers should send to new subscribers
  • Dean shares his favorite client success story
  • How a company should evaluate itself before reaching out to Worth eCommerce

In this episode…

An email list is an incredibly valuable asset for e-commerce sellers. Email marketing has proven results, as well as a low cost compared to other advertising methods. In addition to driving leads and boosting profits, a good email marketing campaign can also give you valuable insights into customer behavior and data.

According to Dean Dutro, the first step to creating an effective email marketing system is ensuring that you have at least four emails to send out to new subscribers. Once website visitors have signed up for your email list, these four emails will inform, engage, and, hopefully, convert them into loyal customers. So, how can you create email marketing campaigns that drive real, long-term results?

In this episode of the Buy Box Experts podcast, host Eric Stopper is joined by Dean Dutro, the Co-founder of Worth eCommerce, to talk about the power of email marketing. They discuss optimizing emails for the customer lifecycle, increasing conversion and open rates, building a long-term email list for your e-commerce business, and more. Stay tuned.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode…

Buy Box Experts applies decades of e-commerce experience to successfully manage their clients’ marketplace accounts. The Buy Box account managers specialize in combining an understanding of their clients’ business fundamentals and their in-depth expertise in the Amazon Marketplace.

The team works with marketplace technicians using a system of processes, proprietary software, and extensive channel experience to ensure your Amazon presence captures the opportunity in the marketplace–not only producing greater revenue and profits but also reducing or eliminating your business’ workload.

Buy Box Experts prides itself on being one of the few agencies with an SMB (small to medium-sized business) division and an Enterprise division. Buy Box does not commingle clients among divisions as each has unique needs and requirements for proper account management.

Learn more about Buy Box Experts at

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:09

Welcome to the Buy Box Experts Podcast where we bring to light the unique opportunities brands face in today’s e-commerce world.

Eric Stopper 0:18

Hey, welcome to the Buy Box Experts Podcast. This is Eric Stopper. Today’s episode is brought to you by Buy Box Experts. Buy Box Experts takes ambitious brands and makes them unbeatable. We’ve got a team of consultants, I am one of them, please reach out to us. I know you have questions, it can get hard to manage these many, many marketplaces that you are forced to sell on as an e-commerce seller. And so go to, click on the free analysis button, and you’ll be connected with me or a member of my team. It’s a very strange time for everybody. I know that. People are worried about tariffs and taxes. And the election is happening right now as we speak the electoral votes, like it’s like 230 to 219 or something like that. The impact on your business, right? Like the economy will keep going. And I have always felt like and I’ll ask our guests about this today as well. I’ve always felt like a monkey just turning the wheel. Just like keeping the economy on like trying to just generate as many sales as possible. The best thing that you could ever do in uncertain times, is just to keep on buying stuff. Just don’t hold on to your nickels. Just buy something, give a gift, buy it on Amazon, buy it on the person’s website, whatever you can do. I think that if everyone just comes together and just continues to operate and by products, then the economy will keep on humming along and we don’t have too much to worry about. But I’ll leave all my political opinions aside for now. Today, I’m so pleased to have Dean Dutro on our show. He is the Co-founder of Worth eCommerce, a platinum level Klaviyo partner that works to improve sales and profits for their clients using powerful email marketing. They focus on driving results and achieving ROI many times higher than what their service costs. They’ve worked with over 500 stores, and they’ve built two of their own that have reached the seven figure mark. Dean, welcome to the show.

Dean Dutro 2:26

Hey, thanks for having me, Eric. I’m excited to join and have this conversation.

Eric Stopper 2:31

So I’m a seller, everybody on the show knows that I sell a couple of products and I’m a dirty cheater. Honestly, I try all the newest tricks that I can find out there. But email marketing has always evaded me. And it’s because I don’t have an email list. I’ve tried to capture emails using or I’ve tried to capture text messages, like cell phone numbers, actually, with QR codes and like I have this product insert that says text plugs to two to 333. To get like, I don’t know, it’s a free offer. I think it’s pretty compelling. And I get there, I get their numbers. And then from there, I’m at last, I’ve had MailChimp. I’ve used a couple of other services before. And so Dean, talk to me just about email marketing, like, what do you guys do first of all? And then what kind of services do you offer the clients that you work with?

Dean Dutro 3:31

Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question. And thanks for bringing that up. You know, there are a lot of like, every six months, there seems to be some sort of new tool or new strategy or new way to cheat the system and get sales. And, you know, like, for examples, like the spindle wins that you saw on websites or now text message marketing is building up. And, you know, really, what’s interesting is that email marketing is actually the oldest form of digital marketing. In fact, the first advertisement was like a one page email sent back like decades ago and that was the first mass digital marketing effort by some auto repair shop or something. So it’s, it’s been around for a long time. But I kind of think it’s just now getting good. And you know, what we do is we help e-commerce stores, build their email list, create a strategy, using the customer lifecycle within e-commerce. So starting from from prospect to new customer to repeat customer to VIP customer to lapse, customer lapse prospect, and we say, hey, in each of these stages, how can we target them with specific emails and content, right so that they become more likely to buy but more likely to buy faster than they would through traditional, not maybe not traditional but through PPC ads, things like that. And we’ll do everything from strategy, design, copywriting implementation, email capture, essentially full service to create this system for you that starts to work pretty much on autopilot. And, you know, I think one of the things that I like to talk about in regards to email is that if you’re focused just on PPC, you’re focused just on the front end channels, right, you’re limited in your profit and your sales based on how much you can spend. Right. So the only way you can make more is if you spend more, what happens with email is, if you go from a list of 1000, to 10,000, to 50,000, to 100,000, the cost to send 10,000 versus 100,000 emails is maybe a $500 difference, right? But your earnings go up, not just your earnings, your margin goes up, because it costs dramatically less to send to your email list than it does to send out a Facebook ad or an Amazon ad or some sort of PPC ad. So what happens over time, I hope my Siri just came on. What happens over time is as you scale, and as you scale, your email list, your profits start to scale, you can take that profit rien sir, or my series going crazy. You can take that profit reinvested in your front end channels, and then all sudden you got this massive growth curve. And a lot of people don’t realize that. So for example, we had a client years ago, I worked with him for years, he was a pet supply store, just selling pet products online. And when we met him, he was doing like $20,000 in sales. And, you know, this was maybe five or six years ago. So he thought it was pretty good. He’s doing 200 grand in sales, we started implementing this email system. And right away, we started seeing results. You want to be at, you know, 30 to 40% of your total online sales coming from email in order to achieve this, this scalability. But what happened is he went from 20,000 to 100,000 a month to 300,000 a month to half a million dollars a month in sales in just four years, with email driving the majority of those profits, right. And we were able to grow with his scale of fame he went from, you know, he was a nurse working by himself to now he’s got a team of like, 1520 people to get a CEO, he does triathlons. And you know, he’s really built this business. Really what i think on the back of an email, of course, there’s been SEO, there’s been PPC, things like that. Another piece of that story is that while he was scaling, there was a point where he was about $150,000 a month. And a lot of his traffic was coming from Google, Google changed their algorithm. And his SEO and his traffic dropped, just almost to zero. And we had this email list of about 75,000 people that held him afloat for two to three months until he could get his SEO back up and get some traffic coming from Facebook ads. So not only is it a profit lever, it’s a bridge during those times when Amazon or Facebook or Google or whoever else changes their algorithms changes the rules, the rules of email have been the same, you know, for decades, and it’s probably not going to change, you know, much. And any business that is sold at some point usually has a massive email list because they know they can send one email and make you know, 10s of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is pretty wild.

Eric Stopper 8:20

Okay, a lot to unpack there.

Eric Stopper 8:24

I thank you, by the way, first of all, now, you send that email like it’s getting better than it’s ever been before. So talk to me about the buying preferences and the customer journey of this social media generation, right? The millennials and centennials. Just, I don’t look at my email very often. Maybe I’m a single iota of data that is completely cast aside, and I wouldn’t be a good target. But are our people buying more from email? Like, what has the conversion rate changed? Has open rates changed? Like, tell me why you think it’s getting better?

Dean Dutro 9:07

Yeah, there’s, you’re hitting a few points that are good. And there’s a wide variety of reasoning. The first one is data collection. Right? So you’re now able to see when someone opens an email when someone clicks an email, where they’re located, how many things they purchased from you how many times they’re visiting your website, and all this data is collected. And you can use that to segment these people to make sure you’re sending the right message to the right person at the right time. Right. And that’s key to email is hey, if I know you’re interested, there’s a segment we call like window shoppers, these are people that come to your website, they’ve looked at three or four different products, but they keep looking at this one product. Well, we’re going to make sure we have something in place so that if we find that they look at the same product four times over the course of a week, they’re gonna get an email about that product. Right? They’re going to get more information on it. It’s not going to be a sale, but it Could be information, it could be testimonials, maybe it’ll be a sale at some point. But we’re targeting that person with exactly what they’re looking for, and providing them value at the same time. And so that’s one example is data. The other is email, email design looks better, right? So if you go on your phone, it’s much easier to read your emails than it was, you know, five or six years ago on your iPhone, or on your galaxy, or whatever. And so you can basically see the promotion or you can see the info right there and click it. And there’s something else that’s interesting that a lot of people were nervous about is in Gmail, you have this promotions tab. And I’m not sure if you use Gmail. So in Gmail, and your personal and usually in your business, they have a promotions tab in which a lot of people thought that was gonna ruin email, that is, if there’s a setting you can create, so you can have like promotions, updates, social kind of segments for the user. But uh, what happened is because of that, people started to expect newsletters and expect these things and look for them. Whereas before, if it showed up in your inbox, direct Jesus, I’m tired of getting all these newsletters, let me delete them, spam them all, it actually reduced spam rates dramatically across the board. So with that data your sender reputation started to increase for many, for many people, and in terms of sending out Gmail or sending out mass emails. So your deliverability started to go up. So your open rates started to go up more people started to see your emails,

Eric Stopper 11:30

simply because they segmented the emails into different sections, like I have important and unread and starred, and then my general email inbox. And that’s it. But I can add a promotion section that just like, neatly organizes all my nice newsletters from all the people that I’ve signed up with. So I don’t have to worry about spam, I’ve got all my spam, just like sitting in a nice little box that I can. There, I can control it. That’s that’s kind of the idea behind this, like people, it’s not in their way anymore. It wasn’t as interruptive.

Dean Dutro 12:01

Yeah. And Google will do these, like little nudges. Now that will say like, hey, like this email says you only have four hours left to get this offer. It’ll be like, top top promotions, right. And so if you can get there on Google, right, then your emails start performing really well. So it’s, it’s getting better across the board. And I think it’s getting better because of the data. And because we can make it more used to spray and pray you’d send 100,000 emails, or you know, an email 200,000 people have no idea who they were. Now you kind of know what they’re up to, and what they’re looking for. Yeah.

Eric Stopper 12:35

So you guys as an agency, right? Like, you look at the data, and seek to understand these customer journeys, and you’ve got these, I imagine almost like a Kanban style, like, oh, they’re, you know, they’re prospects, and they go to a customer and then go to a VIP customer. And inside each of those stages, you’ve got this variety of emails that you’ve developed that will help transition that person into making a sale. Have you just like, absolutely, like, made it scientific? Is it just totally like, Okay, if you’re here, like, these are the three types of emails, we’re gonna, we’re gonna multivariate test these three for each of them, the one that has the highest conversion rate, or click through rate, that’s the one that we’re going to use for that, and then just build that campaign out for somebody and then just, it just rides for the rest of forever.

Dean Dutro 13:31

Yeah, pretty much. You know, it’s taken years to get to that point. But so every so if you think about every part of the customer lifecycle, across any business, really, across any industry, the customer lifecycle is really the same, right? And there’s different jargon and different things. But since we’re the back channel, you know, it’s usually people who have been to a website, they’ve seen some ads, now we’re giving them more information, more urgency, we’re using different conversion tactics. But you know, if you think about it from a perspective of, hey, what types of content overall can you get, you can give informational based content, you can give social proof, right, you can give urgency, you can give sales if you want to. And then also you can get unique messaging from the founder, right, or unique messaging from the business, which is becoming more popular because a lot more people are wanting to shop from not just local, but like more independent sorts of brands. I’ve found, you know, people like there’s a great, great company called mugsy jeans, which, when I buy all my jeans from them, they’re awesome. They’ve got a great email system. I don’t know if they saw it on Amazon, but they like, you get messages from the owner. You know, I love that type of stuff. But we can say okay, if you’re in this part of the customer lifecycle, you know, we have kind of figured out it’s going to take about four emails to get the most ROI, you know, on autopilot, and each email is gonna have its own goal, right like email, one, information, email to social proof, email three, hey, we’re running out of stock email for, hey, we’re having a flash sale, something like that, right. And it’ll be different for each category. And that runs the same across most e-commerce stores, which is, you know, if you’re thinking about strategy, you’re thinking about big picture philosophy, versus like these little cheating tactics a lot of people try to use, that’ll be stable across time.

Eric Stopper 15:26

Is this what I mean? this is all existing inside of the email. But let’s say that somebody clicks on a piece of the content that’s offered, and they end up somewhere. Do you have insight into what they do once they’re there? Or does the portion of like email transaction insights stop at the point that they like, engaged and clicked on something? And then it’s the job of the website? To convert? Do you guys look at that? Do you look past the point of click inside of the email? Or do you mostly just stick to like, Okay, do we get them to click on the thing in the email? No,

Dean Dutro 16:05

we’re looking at conversion too. But we’re also looking, depending on the goal of the email, right? So if the goal of this email is to educate people, we want them to go to the place where they can be educated, and then likely they will purchase, right? So that but that purchase period may be, you know, a couple of days, whereas if it’s like a sale email, we’re going to track that day who’s purchased from that email, and we can attribute it directly to that. Right? So it kind of depends on the goal. And obviously, you know, it’s up to the website to collect the data and information and the better the on site conversions are better, the email is going to perform naturally. Right? So also they’ll start to lift each other up. That’s it, that’s a big thing that I think has been hard in the digital spaces. Where do you attribute revenue? And especially, you know, if you’re using email, or Facebook ads, or Amazon or whatever method you’re using, how do you attribute it? So we’ve come to the point where it’s like, hey, like, let’s just look at overall lift. If you have more money in your bank account at the end of the month than he did last month, it’s a win, right? give more profit. Right? Like, that’s, that’s a huge win. So we’re always, you know, talking more about overall lift and margin, which you don’t always see right away. You know, of course, it depends on the financials of people and things like that. But that’s, that’s one thing we like to look at.

Eric Stopper 17:24

Sure. I wonder like, if somebody was working with both of us, for instance, they’re paying us money to lift their sales? Yep. Would you look at sales on their website? Would you look at sales on Amazon overall sales? increases in pios on their brick and mortars, you know, what I like? Like, what is the thing that you can point to as an email marketer, and say, I made the most impact in this channel?

Dean Dutro 17:50

Yeah, I would say on like, what we call owned marketing. So if you have a Shopify store, people are coming to your Shopify store, getting on your email list, we can send out emails and no purchase, right? But let’s say we only collect, you know, 10% of visitors that come to your site, the other 90%, we don’t know where they’re going, they could be going to Amazon that could be going to Walmart, or wherever, you know, you have your channels outside of your store. And so we’re not counting any of that, right. We’re only seeing what’s being purchased on store, and how our emails are impacting that. But unfortunately, I can’t see like, Oh, they click here, then they went to Amazon, you know, I could say, Oh, this section of people came from Amazon. We got their emails, but we noticed they’re not purchasing here. likely they’re purchasing on Amazon, right? Something, something like that. So you may want to create a segment where you target people saying, hey, like we sell our products on Amazon, if you prefer that. That’s one kind of method of going about it.

Eric Stopper 18:55

Interesting. Yeah. in your, in your emails that you send out, right? You have information. I imagine that information. You’d either want them to consume the content in the email, or you’d want them on the website, right? Where you got lots of capabilities of adding video and like you can really dive in on the culture. But then when they’re ready to buy, right when you’re trying to send an email that is meant to get them to transact. Right, the final, the final nudge. We found that conversion rates on Amazon are typically higher than a website. Do you guys ever send traffic directly to Amazon With that in mind, or do you typically prefer to send the person to the website?

Dean Dutro 19:39

We actually never, never did that. And I’m curious about it. I’m curious if there’s a way to track it and curious if there’s a way to see that information to attribute it because obviously, you know, as an agency, we’re looking at, hey, what can we show that we’ve increased if we have access to Amazon, for example. I think that would be a really good pilot to do a really good case study to try and figure out because everyone’s trying to figure this out, do I sell on Amazon? Do I sell my own site? Do I sell on both? What marketing is going to be the best? What lovers? Do I need to pull? That could be another indicator for people?

Eric Stopper 20:15

Yeah, I think that begs the question to like, let’s say, cuz, I mean, in 2000 22,021, right, like, a single person could run a really powerful e-commerce business. And they’ve got their Facebook and Google company, agency, they’ve got their Facebook agency, they’ve got their email agency, they’ve got their freight forwarder, right, they’ve got all these pieces, and they basically assemble this team. And most of them are saying, Look at this great work that we did for you like, wow, this, you know, can we make a case study off of this great lift that we made for your business? And I would be curious to understand how we would be delineated and say, okay, most of the attribution, most of like, your highest ROI really comes from this channel. Do you have any insights into how a business owner can come to that conclusion to determine which of their things is lifting their business the most?

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Dean Dutro is the Co-founder of Worth eCommerce, a company that helps e-commerce businesses of all sizes dramatically grow their revenue with email marketing. Worth eCommerce focuses on driving results and boosting ROI. It has worked with over 500 stores and built two of its own that have reached the 7-figure mark.